Why I Love Science

[Builtgypsy]

Originally Posted by PhilB

Do you have any actual evidence for that?

PhilB

She wouldn't let me take pictures.

[bumblebee]

Originally Posted by PhilB

If it's there naturally, it's not supernatural stuff, and thus it can be rationally detected and studied. I'm talking about all that stuff that so many people claim is there, but can't ever provide any hard evidence for. Like space aliens, ghosts, and God.

We KNOW that people's minds and perceptions are imperfect. We KNOW that people's minds play tricks in them. We KNOW that our species is so tuned to pattern recognition that we are prone to "recognize" patterns that aren't actually there.

Give me hard, measurable, reproducible evidence, and I'll believe anything you can show to be true. Until then, I'm a skeptic. And as I noted, there are PLENTY of phenomena that are supported by hard, measurable, reproducible evidence, that are fascinating and worthy of study.

PhilB

Just because you can't measure it today doesn't mean it isn't natural and supposed to be there/here. You aren't one of those people so arrogant who believes homo sapiens on planet earth have all the answers to the universe, are you?

You need to meet up with a man named Al Gore. He claims he knows the absolute scientific answers for weather on planet Earth, that is 4 billion years old, from records that have been kept for 150 years.

Does your doctor still use leeches?

[PhilB]

Originally Posted by bumblebee

Just because you can't measure it today doesn't mean it isn't natural and supposed to be there/here. You aren't one of those people so arrogant who believes homo sapiens on planet earth have all the answers to the universe, are you?

You need to meet up with a man named Al Gore. He claims he knows the absolute scientific answers for weather on planet Earth, that is 4 billion years old, from records that have been kept for 150 years.

Does your doctor still use leeches?

I certainly don't think we have all the answers to the universe yet, but I don't see any inherent reason why we can't ever get them. If you can't measure it today, that doesn't prove it doesn't exist, but it sure doesn't prove that it does. And it is the person who claims that something does exist who bears the burden of showing evidence that his claim is valid. So you can claim any belief you feel like, but if you don't have measurable evidence, then I have no good reason to buy into it.

I don't think Al Gore had all the answers about climate; I think that his conclusions were at least partly motivated by politics and not evidence. This is exactly in line with the philosophy that I was promoting -- Mr. Gore, show me the measurable evidence. It is those who are following him that are choosing to treat his claims as pronouncements from on high and failing to hold him to a standard of hard, measurable, reproducible evidence. (Although it might be noted that we have a lot more data about past climates than the measurements of the last 150 years, so your attempt at discrediting him also fails for lack of truth.)

And your silly question about doctors and leeches is silly, because the *reason* doctors don't use leeches the way they once did is EXACTLY the attitude I was promoting -- show me the hard, measurable, reproducible evidence. We got measurable evidence that such a practice was not helpful, so we changed it. Conversely it is those who believe in superstitions without measurable evidence that are most prone to hold onto old beliefs and practices that are known to be not valid.

PhilB

[bumblebee]

But Phil, The technology we are using now, will be compared to using leeches 100 years from now. So many more things that are unproven and not measureable today will be common knowledge in 100 years...and they will look at us, shake their heads and talk about what primitive rubes we were

[PhilB]

Originally Posted by bumblebee

But Phil, The technology we are using now, will be compared to using leeches 100 years from now. So many more things that are unproven and not measureable today will be common knowledge in 100 years...and they will look at us, shake their heads and talk about what primitive rubes we were

Okay. But that still provides no evidence or incentive to believe in things for which we have no measurable evidence now. Meanwhile there are PLENTY of fascinating and important things we DO have evidence for, and CAN measure right now, that can be studied and paid attention to. The phenomenon cited in the OP for this thread, for instance. Which was really my point -- that there's so much real scientific stuff to study that there's no point in wasting time on stuff that nobody's ever come up with real evidence for in centuries of trying.

What's your interest here? What unprovable supernatural phenomena are you pushing?

PhilB

[bumblebee]

none, I believe there are very few "supernatural phenomena" that won't be proven eventually.

For example, I believe in UFO's. When sitting out with my telescope on a moonless night around Dec 20 and I am looking at all the stars and galaxies out there, There is no way I will ever believe that this is the only living planet and we are the only life forms in the universe.

I believe there is evil and I believe in monsters...and they are living amongst us, preying on us

[silent_r1]

Originally Posted by bumblebee

But Phil, The technology we are using now, will be compared to using leeches 100 years from now. So many more things that are unproven and not measureable today will be common knowledge in 100 years...and they will look at us, shake their heads and talk about what primitive rubes we were

Hate to break to either you or Phil, but we do still use leeches in medicine today.
Just thought I'd let you know. Granted, they are not used every day, but in the case where the vascularity of something is being compromised (typically by edema), then physicians will use leeches b/c of the enzyme in their saliva which keeps blood from clotting, thus improving the circulation and decreasing the liklihood of tissue death.

OH! And we still use maggots too. Different purpose, but same results. well, more or less.

[Builtgypsy]

There may be aliens on other planets, but there aren't any alien spacecraft zooming across the cornfields of Iowa.

[Alawicious]

That you know of

[Builtgypsy]

Originally Posted by Alawicious

That you know of

Teh physics!